Lancer boss Forklift

[Ned26410]

Hi
Hope someone can help with this.I bought an old 1970's Lancer boss forklift very cheap,reason it was so cheap was theres no brakes and also an oil leak.The oil is leaking out the bottom of a bell housing between the engine and the transmission.Theres a hole at the top of this housing and i can see the ring gear,and ive been told that there is a torque converter in here as well.Oil splashes out of this hole when its running.This forklift would have spent a lot of time out in the open,so i think water may have gotten in through the hole at the top,because the oil coming from both areas is white.I've checked the engine oil and its not discoloured so that rules out any major engine issue.It leaks an awful lot more when its running,i presume this is down to viscosity and not pressure,because it doesnt spray out just drips a lot.I've been told its most likely the transmission seal.It moves fairly slow up a hill and needs plenty of revs,but apparently they were like this from new,but on the flat it moves itself well,so i hope that means the torque converter is ok and not the source of the oil leak.I checked the trans dipstick and the level is good but the last owner may have been topping the trans or engine up.The oil is red so im presuming this trans takes Automatic transmission oil.
So i have a few questions,
Does the trans share oil with the torque converter?
Could there be another source of this oil leak besides the trans seal,ie a pump?
Is it a feasible job to clean up a rusty brake master cylinder?Is there a tool or chemicals suitable for this? The one i have isnt very badly pitted seems more surface rust,and ive been quoted €160 for new one.
I think i will need to lift the engine out to sort this leak out.
Will the weight have to come off to get the engine out?
I've never worked on a forklift before so any advice on how to go about doing this job is much appreciated.
I'll get pics up later to help in identifying the model.

[Jeremy Rowland]

Hi Ned, welcome to the site!

I can only offer a small amount of advice here; regarding the master cylinder if its pitted inside then its scrap because fluid will simply pass any new seals you fit via the rust pits, secondly I would also look at the brake slave cylinders too as the seals in those may very well of perished on an old truck like that.

Regarding the oil leak I am pretty sure that the torque converter has its own oil supply, is all of the leaking oil milky white or is any of it red in colour?
If the leaking oil is red then its certainly ATF (automatic transmission fluid) which could of leaked from either the torque converter or the gearbox, either way it would really require the engine out to sort it.
I am no FLT expert but its a fair bet you would need to lift off the counter weight to remove the engine and transmission.
Hope this helps and good luck.

Jeremy

[BulldozerD11]

There is a firm that refurbs brake master and slave cylinders (think they sleeve them) that advertises in some of the old tractor mags. But they are all generally bought in bits so you could probably find one in a scrap yard / breakers.

Fork trucks vary from a 1/2 ton machine up to 40 ton plus capacity so a photo would help.

A number of early ones were based on tractor skd units reversed.

Dave

[Green Dragon]

Ned, you don't say what model you truck is, but if the oil is leaking from the flywheel housing it could be the seal between the tansmission and the torque convertor that has failed. Usually ATF is use in these transmissions. On forklifts this usually means an engine out job. Whether the counterweight has to come off depends on the model. Please keep us informed and maybe post a picture of your progress. Good luck.

[Ned26410]

Hi
Thanks for the replies.If you can see the attachments,these forklifts are the same as mine and i think they are pd4 or pd5 models.I hope that is of use.
I'm still wondering is the torque converter a sealed unit or does it share oil with the trans somehow,and is the trans seal in question tight on the trans shaft or is the torque converter shaft tight on this seal? How would oil leak out of the torque converter unless it was cracked? Is there a seal i could replace or is it a replacement of the complete unit?
The alternator wires have bare ends and havent been connected,how do i know which wire goes where? I suspect that if the alternator is working i should get 13.5v out of 1 of the wires,Is this correct?The alternator has been spinning so i reckon its goosed.The guy i bought it from had it for 6 years is a trucker and had been using it like this
I found a new master cylinder for €70 incl shipping from a U.S ebay seller,this is less than half of what my local supplier is quoting , if the condition of the master cylinder is anything to go by i reckon i'll need new slaves too and maybe shoes aswell .This is looking like more of an expensive project than i imagined .
I'll probably get started at getting the engine out on the weekend.Does any one know how far back the engine will need to go before it can come up and out?
Lot of questions there.
Thanks again.

[Jeremy Rowland]

Hi Ned I am no FLT expert but I would say that you would need the counterweight lifting off to get enough room to remove the engine, sorry but my experience does not go any further here so I wish you the best of luck with it.
I would of thought that the brake slave cylinders if they are leaking would require only a seal kit, they may be okay you only need remove the wheel and drum to find out, you would need to change the brake shoes though if they had been contaminated with brake fluid.

Jeremy

[BulldozerD11]

Heres that firm id seen for refurbing and supplying older Brake parts www.pastparts.co.uk they also list friction bits like pads, shoes and clutches in there advert in Old Glory Mag.

Thak s for photo - Like Jeremy its along time since working on a fork truck but loking at that its highly likly the weight will need to come off if the engine needs to come right out but you may once all the covers are of and the rad out be able to split it and slide it back engough to extract gear box

With out a manual or an expert its a strip it down job and see how it looks but probably not a quick job, but probably just be a shaft seal if it working OK and has plenty of oil in it. Some transmissions have a split shaft with sleeve coupler so you dont need to take engine out to change clutch

But on the flip side my Auto car box when stripped own was found to be well knackered but that was due to loss of fluid cooking the internals after the oil cooler line burst & i dident know till i saw a large pool of olil on the floor and it sparaying out.

Try finding a local fortruck firm that deals in used trucks and asking them - they may know of a braker for parts or who does transmission bits. Trouble is with high scrap prices a lot of people are dumping older stuff for cash

Dave

[Green Dragon]

Ned, it's at least 25 years since I worked on one like that, you won't have to take the counterweight off to get the engine out. When the rad is out the engine only needs to move back about 5-6". When you remove the starter turn the engine by hand and you will see the bolts that fix the engine flex plate to the torque convertor. When the engine is out you can then pull the converter off the shaft(it's heavy) and you will then see the seal in the transmission housing. As I said it's been a long time since I worked on this type of kit. BTW where are you located?

[Ned26410]

Thanks very much for the replies,they're much appreciated.
Jeremy,I hope youre right about the slave cylinders only needing seals,but It'll be a while before i get to investigating.
Dave,Thanks for the link.The local forklift man is famous for being pig ignorant so i wont be asking advice from him for free,but i might get a bit out of him if i buy something from him.I'll keep asking around locally and maybe something will turn up.
Steve,I hope your memory is good.Thats just the kind of details i was after.You've saved a lot of trouble,cause the weight wouldve been tough to get off,as i've nothing here that would lift it.Do you think i'll need to raise the the forklift up to gain access underneath? It looks like it'd be very tight trying to reach in under it from the side.Would It be possible to lift the torque converter out by hand?Or would it be too heavy for 2 people leaning in from each side.I dont want to go sliding it off the Transmission shaft and have it fall and get damaged.
My usual technique for removing seals is to drill a few holes around the face of the seal,then run self tapping screws into each hole until the seal pushes out,Will this work here?
I've no access to block and tackle as yet so a tractor front loader will have to do.
Once i get started on it i'll take photos and post them up to let you all know how im getting on.
I'm in Dublin Ireland, Whereabouts are you Steve?
Thanks again all.
Ned

[Jeremy Rowland]

Hi Ned, I live near to Birmingham in the West Midlands, the company I currently work for are having a bit of trouble with a Cat FLT that we lease so if I get a chance to have a word with the engineer when he comes in I will ask his advice to see if I can learn anything new that would help you, they tend to be more helpful when your giving them business.

Jeremy