New poster, looking for JCB 3 info

[kaos]

Hello everybody,

My brother and I are trying to get an old JCB into shape, and I came accross this forum when I was searching for information about it. I have already downloaded the manuals from the download section, for which many thanks, but, while they claim to cover the 3 series also, they seem to concentrate rather on the newer models (3c etc.)

So, this is what we know, or think we know about the machine:

- JCB 3 series. Seems to be confirmed by those pictures I've been able to find of 3's. Sloping grille and 'humpback' cab.
- Probably early 60's model.
- Ford or Fordson motor, as I understand it. Not BMC/Leyland.
- Mechanical steering with hydraulic assist, rather than the completely hydraulic system outlined in the workshop manual. Belt driven steering pump.
- Starter with mechanical engagement of the drive pinion (courtesy of a lever inside the cab) and a seperate contactor-only starter coil.
- Hydraulic controls seem to be the same that are explained in the operators manual.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures right now. Will snap some next weekend and add here. Haven't been able to find any maker plate yet, so serial number unknown.

If anyone here is familiar with these machines, we would be very grateful for any information. What we are looking for right now is primarily information about the power steering assist unit (a combination valve/ram), and location of the maker plate, but all info would be useful .

--
Best regards,
Kári.

[FOWLER MAN]

Hi Kari
Your JCB is the model 3 or 3C probably early 60's which was based on the Fordson Power Major or Super Major skid unit. Someone here will be able to tell you which.
The power steering is probably the same as these tractors. I have resealed the rams in the past. If you are looking for parts for the Fordson skid unit you may find them with someone who deals with Fordson tractor spares. Try Agriline Products. www.agrilineproducts.com
I checked this out in my catalogue. I think they will suply new kit including ram, pump, reservoir and hoses for about £250 - 00.
Sorry I can't be more help.
Fred

[kaos]

Hi Fred, and thanks for the reply.
I think this is definitely a model 3, and probably an early one. The operators manual has a picture of a model 3 with a different cab, and says it has a BMC engine. Also, I heard of an old 3C in the neighborhood and went and took a look at it last night. It has a different cab from ours and the BMC engine, but the same sloping grille and the same steering arrangement, except the ram has been switched over to the right hand side (it is on the left hand side in ours).
One question; what is a skid unit? The engine/transmission/rear axle combo?
The engine in ours is actually in quite good shape; it's details like the wheels falling apart from rust, and steering assist that doesn't, that we have to fix.
--
Best regards,
Kári.

[FOWLER MAN]

Hello again
Yes the skid unit would include Ford/ Fordson engine transmission brakes rear axle etc.
Later Leyland engined models were based on the Nuffield tractor.

Fred

[essexpete]

If you have specific Fordson questions you would not do better than to ask on here: http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=ddf66a965d8124faf26533256c6f595a

I can't remember when the 3C was introduced but the Super Major came out in '61 and can be identified by dry disc brakes in the place of the drum brakes on the end of the bull shafts ahead of the main axle trumpet. You can also check the Ford casting codes which will give you a clue to the age.

[Steelfab]

the power assisted steering ram was popular on backhoe loaders of that age and small commercial vehicles. From memory it was made by Hydrosteer. I had mine rebuilt by a company in Norfolk called Power Steering Services, Tel: 01692 406017. I have technical drawings of the unit on the JCB if you need it.

I have done a fair bit of reseach on all the JCB BHL's and summarised some information below

JCB 3 (1961-1980)

• To fill in the gap in the market left by the Hydra-Digger it was smaller than the JCB 4 aimed at house builds rather than the JCB 4’s civil engineering customers.
• Consisted of JCB ‘hydrachassis’ which was a welded steel box section frame containing fuel tank, hydraulic oil tank, front axle yolk, front shovel mounting frame and a rear mounting bracket and stabiliser legs.
• First time twin vertical stabilisers, a lower centre of gravity and the innovative ‘Hydra Slide’ kingpost, by slackening off four bolts the kingpost could be positioned anywhere along the 6ft 6in cross rail to enable the machine to dig tight up alongside walls or other obstructions.
• First JCB machine to have twin vertical stabilisers, demonstrating the creative thinking within JCB at the time.
• The excavator had two lever controls, while the bucket had one lever control.
• Included a side access cab as compared to the rear access cabs of the previous models.
• Had an innovative swivel seat to make swapping between excavator and forward position easier. The position of the seat also changed to the centre of the machine, unlike the earlier machines which had an offset seating position. This reiterates JCB’s commitment to operator comfort.
• Powered by the same 53.7hp Fordson tractor skid as the JCB 4, but was much smaller and lighter, and therefore much more manoeuvrable.
• The standard ½ cu yd general shovel was fitted
• Maximum dig depth of 13ft 4in and maximum load over height of 10ft 9in
• A 3S was a small compact loading shovel version was also available with a Torque Convertor priced at £2,085 ex works in 1963. A 3CS de-luxe version of the 3S had larger rams and pump producing greater tear-out force and lifting capacity. Redesigned shovel arms giving better forward reach and visibility
• In 1964 a change was made to a three cylinder Nuffield skid unit.
• 1967 saw the launch of the JCB 3 Mk.II, which saw an engine change to a Leyland 70hp unit.
• 1970 saw the launch of the JCB 3 Mk.III. Changes included a side access sliding door.
• In 1962 JCB 3 cost £2,500 (including an optional cab).
• 7000 JCB 3’s were built.

[FOWLER MAN]

Hi Kari
Check out edit to my earlier entry re.steering ram and pump.
Fred

[kaos]

Thank you for your replies, all of you. This is very useful information and links.
I see I have been under a misapprehension about the JCB model numbering scheme. I thought that, for example, 3c was a later model than the plain 3, but in reality they were concurrent, with the 3c being a different variant, am I correct? That would also explain why the manuals don't have information about some aspects of the old model 3; they simply apply to a later model year. (Yes, I'm a complete JCB noob, how'd you know?)

Your JCB is the model 3 or 3C probably early 60's which was based on the Fordson Power Major or Super Major skid unit. Someone here will be able to tell you which.
The power steering is probably the same as these tractors. I have resealed the rams in the past. If you are looking for parts for the Fordson skid unit you may find them with someone who deals with Fordson tractor spares. Try Agriline Products. www.agrilineproducts.com
I checked this out in my catalogue. I think they will suply new kit including ram, pump, reservoir and hoses for about £250 - 00.

Yes, seems to be a Super Major, see below. Thanks for that link, it will be useful. And yes, that certainly seems to be the same pump and ram as used by the JCB, except the Super Major pump has an attached reservoir while the JCB uses the same fluid as the main hydraulics, but i guess it could be easily adapted.

If you have specific Fordson questions you would not do better than to ask on here: http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=ddf66a965d8124faf26533256c6f595

Thank you. That's another very useful link. From the manuals they have available, it seems that the skid in the JCB is from a Super Major. It has the exact same controls (instrument panel, starting lever, gear levers).

the power assisted steering ram was popular on backhoe loaders of that age and small commercial vehicles. From memory it was made by Hydrosteer. I had mine rebuilt by a company in Norfolk called Power Steering Services, Tel: 01692 406017. I have technical drawings of the unit on the JCB if you need it.

Yes, please, those would be very nice. Do you have them scanned, or on paper?

I have done a fair bit of reseach on all the JCB BHL's and summarised some information below

JCB 3 (1961-1980)

• To fill in the gap in the market left by the Hydra-Digger it was smaller than the JCB 4 aimed at house builds rather than the JCB 4’s civil engineering customers.
• Consisted of JCB ‘hydrachassis’ which was a welded steel box section frame containing fuel tank, hydraulic oil tank, front axle yolk, front shovel mounting frame and a rear mounting bracket and stabiliser legs.
• First time twin vertical stabilisers, a lower centre of gravity and the innovative ‘Hydra Slide’ kingpost, by slackening off four bolts the kingpost could be positioned anywhere along the 6ft 6in cross rail to enable the machine to dig tight up alongside walls or other obstructions.
• First JCB machine to have twin vertical stabilisers, demonstrating the creative thinking within JCB at the time.
• The excavator had two lever controls, while the bucket had one lever control.
• Included a side access cab as compared to the rear access cabs of the previous models.
• Had an innovative swivel seat to make swapping between excavator and forward position easier. The position of the seat also changed to the centre of the machine, unlike the earlier machines which had an offset seating position. This reiterates JCB’s commitment to operator comfort.
• Powered by the same 53.7hp Fordson tractor skid as the JCB 4, but was much smaller and lighter, and therefore much more manoeuvrable.
• The standard ½ cu yd general shovel was fitted
• Maximum dig depth of 13ft 4in and maximum load over height of 10ft 9in
• A 3S was a small compact loading shovel version was also available with a Torque Convertor priced at £2,085 ex works in 1963. A 3CS de-luxe version of the 3S had larger rams and pump producing greater tear-out force and lifting capacity. Redesigned shovel arms giving better forward reach and visibility
• In 1964 a change was made to a three cylinder Nuffield skid unit.
• 1967 saw the launch of the JCB 3 Mk.II, which saw an engine change to a Leyland 70hp unit.
• 1970 saw the launch of the JCB 3 Mk.III. Changes included a side access sliding door.
• In 1962 JCB 3 cost £2,500 (including an optional cab).
• 7000 JCB 3’s were built.

Thank you for that excellent summary. Wow, 1961-1980? That's an impressive product run, even if it did receive some major updates along the way.

• First JCB machine to have twin vertical stabilisers, demonstrating the creative thinking within JCB at the time.

The 'vertical stabilizers' would be the rear support 'legs', right? I found some pictures of the Hydra-Digger and it seems to have sloping legs. Why was/is having them vertical such a big deal?

Included a side access cab as compared to the rear access cabs of the previous models.

That would be later model years then, I guess. Ours has the rear access cab.

• In 1964 a change was made to a three cylinder Nuffield skid unit.

That would make our (Fordson unit) a 1961-1963, or possibly early 1964 model. Getting closer!

I have some pictures, but this post is long enough as it is, and I have to get to work now. Will post again later today.

--
Best regards,
Kári.

[davidbrown80]

my first jcb was a ford powered jcb3 sloping front just as you described . seem to remember you didnt steer it as much as aim it got a bit scarey sometimes with on coming traffic. but the best of luck with your project.

[kaos]

my first jcb was a ford powered jcb3 sloping front just as you described . seem to remember you didnt steer it as much as aim it got a bit scarey sometimes with on coming traffic. but the best of luck with your project.

Haven't driven it in heavy traffic yet, and don't expect I will, but I know what you mean. Mind you, we did take apart the ram and tighten things up, and that helped a lot with the wandering. Still very limited assist though. We are beginning to think it may be the pump rather than the ram.

So here come some pictures:

0160-0023 10-07-2010 18-57.thumb.jpg

Err, yes. Reading the fine print, that would be a JCB 3, right enough. In my defense, I have to say that, before last weekend, I had only taken a very cursory look at it, and yes, I spent some time looking for a maker plate, but forgot to look at the mast. In the background are my brother, Hilmar, and his son in law, Öddi.

0160-0026 10-07-2010 18-58.thumb.jpg

A bit rusty, but mostly sound. The cab may be a writeoff though. The door/window definitely is.

0160-0007 10-07-2010 18-44.thumb.jpg

The other side. We had to patch that rear wheel. No, not the tire, the wheel. I did mention that it's a bit rusty, didn't I?

0160-0010 10-07-2010 18-45.thumb.jpg

My niece, Rebekka, preparing to give it a much needed wash.

0160-0013 10-07-2010 18-54.thumb.jpg

The Fordson engine. I understand that the 'FL' stamped next to the no. 1 injector means that this is the latest and most powerful generation of these motors that were produced.

0160-0014 10-07-2010 18-54.thumb.jpg

The injection pump. I suspect that this has been replaced at some point, from the blue paint under the yellow.

0160-0016 10-07-2010 18-55.thumb.jpg

The steering ram that has been giving us trouble.

0160-0019 10-07-2010 18-55.thumb.jpg

And the steering pump. And more rust.

Now, restoration purists may wish to look away from the next picture:

0160-0021 10-07-2010 18-56.thumb.jpg

I think I mentioned in a previous post that this machine had a mechanically operated starter pinion and an off-starter coil/relay. Both the coil and it's control switch was defective, so we decided to do away with the middle man and drive the starter through a simple switch. But where to find a momentary switch that could handle the current draw of a starter motor? Why, in a starter coil of course! That's how we ended up with the above contraption: The actual coil is not used, except to support the plunger. Also note the high-tech support unit under the coil. Oh, the coil donor? A Lada.

--
Best regards,
Kári.