Reinstalling diesel injectors, Leyland 4/98NT

[CHRISEEBOY]

Hi guys, just a quick one...

When reinstalling the copper sleeved injectors on my JCB 3C, should I have to hit them with a hammer to get them back in? They are currently about 10mm proud of where they need to be before I can put the bolts back in.

Should I use the bolts to pull them down to the engine block or smack them with a lump hammer or sand down the copper sleeves?

[Jeremy Rowland]

Hi Chris, injector sleeves on the engines which I have worked on are usually driven down (put some loctite on them to help seal them first) and once home they are normally rolled with a special tool.

Now whether that is the case with this engine or not I don't know, try one of your injectors in the sleeve, if the injector does not want to fit or is tight then I'd guess that this type of sleeve should be rolled.

I am sure somebody on here will have fitted these before on this make of engine; whatever the sleeves must be carefully knocked or better still pressed home fully or else they will leak coolant into the engine bores.

Jeremy

[CHRISEEBOY]

Hi Jeremy, when you say "rolled with a special tool" what exactly do you mean?

The injectors have a hexagonal top and I had to use a 1" socket on a breaker bar to gently twist them back and forth in order to get them loose. Now I want to get them back in and its proving rather difficult. Ive tried rubbing the copper down with 600 grit wet and dry, sprayed a bit of wd40 on them, still wont go in. Ive put the 1" socket over the injector(s) and tried tapping with a normal hammer but i dont want to hit them too hard unless someone tells me its the done thing!

[MrF]

I feel rather alarmed at your description here, do you mean the copper sleeve came out with the injector when you removed it?
The injector should be steel on its outer, and the copper sleeve should stay in the head, if it came out with the injector, the sleeves are possibly(/probably) ruined.
The sleeves are inserted into the head, then expanded into place to seal them if you have traditional 4/98 injector sleeves then the injectors themselves should slide into the copper tube formed. I fitted a different style sleeve that didnt need expanding according to the instructions, but then I've hydrolocked that motor after starting it so I'm hesitant to recommend them as I still don't know if the sleeves leaking is the culprit.
As Jeremy says, if the sleeves aren't fitted properly and sealing, coolant can get into the combustion chambers & places it shouldn't be and that can be very bad news.

[MrF]

FowlerMan replied to my thread on hydrolocking my 4/98 with bad sleeves here with a picture of the rolling tool to expand the sleeves, and I think he was right on the money as to the root cause (leaking sleeves).
FOWLER MAN @ carnage 3ciii

[MrF]

Also, this is what your injector's should look like (along with a photo of sleeves displaced from the head in the previous post).
MrF @ carnage 3ciii

I've had a bit of grief with 4/98 injector sleeves over the past year...

[CHRISEEBOY]

Thank you everyone. It looks like I have a bigger problem as i'm affraid the copper sleeves did indeed come out attached to the injectors. I cant see how I would even get them out of the copper sleeves to be honest, they are stuck fast.

[Slooby]

If you have a Dremel with some cutting discs, and are super careful, you could score the outside of the sleeves a bit to weeken them, not cut through, just enough to form a fault line which could be just what's needed to peal the sleeves apart and of, a bit like the ring pul on a can...

[CHRISEEBOY]

So its a better option to remove the copper sleeves and buy new ones to go back in the head, rather than drive the injectors (with sleeves) back into the holes?

[MrF]

Even if you get those sleeves off complete, its not likely that they're going to reseal after being pulled out and driven back in & copper age/work hardens so the odds are against you.
I would try to peel them off the injectors as slooby's method and save the injectors if possible and then fit new sleeves (they are not that expensive and still available), but then you are either going to have to try to find a rolling tool to expand the new sleeves into sealing.

I did buy some sleeves of a different design that dont require expanding according to their instructions, but I'm not going to recommend them as I still had a water leaking into the cylinders issue after fitting them that I still haven't got to the bottom of yet...
Can you show a photo of the injectors pintle end on? I'm curious if you have these expansionless sleeves or the original ones and if they look like there is a separate sealing washer where the injector fits onto the head. The originals are straight copper tubes that you have to fit injector washers to also, but the expansionless ones have a copper washer formed into the end so dont need the washer.