580B Drive Problem

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Topic author
gamble.greg
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:05 pm
Real name: Greg Gamble
Location: Sale, Victoria Australia.

580B Drive Problem

Post #1 by gamble.greg » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:19 pm

Have any of you had much to do with the transmission on a 580B? When I got my machine (off ebay of course) she came from a distance away and i didnt have the luxury of doing any testing before auction as i was away at work (as usual), I spoke to the farmer that had her and he assured me there wasnt a problem with her apart from some small hydraulic leaks, so on that i bought her...........I was away at work(like usual) the wife rang me and said when it arrived on the tilt tray, and there was a note in it that said you have to run it for 5 or 6 minutes to warm up the oil in the transmission before trying to move it, :oops: I had been had.
Anyway, it was ok for a while, but I noticed the time was getting longer before you could jump on and drive it, it had to run from cold for about 10 minutes or it wouldnt drive, and pushing in it seemed like it was low on oil, it would buck, drive then not drive etc just on pushing in, reverse was fine. If you were in too high a gear (in forward) drive would just be like a slipping clutch until the revs came back down and you would feel it pick up drive again. I had checked the oil and it was a little low and thought well i had better just change the oil since it was BLACK, looked a lot like old engine oil, I drained it and flushed it and put the recommended hydraulic oil back in, cleaned out the filter housing, it had a ball bearing in the filter case that was not small enough to fit thru any of the fittings on the filter case so I dont know where it came from, put in a new filter, put it all together and had NO DRIVE at all.......(a fair bit of metal in the old oil too).......dumped that lot of oil out and put engine oil back in and it was marginally better and that is the way she has been since. By the red/green pressure guage connected to the shuttle off the clutch pedal it has pressure as soon as you start the engine and when you use the clutch/shuttle pedal pressure drops and picks up straight away, there is no forward drive after starting up cold but some in reverse, after running the engine for 10 minutes it has forward drive but hasnt got enough to push in with. Do I split the machine and send it to the case transmission guy or do you think there is something I should try first ?? .............I already think it is a major repair so anything less would be good..........cheers............gg
GG


IANOZ
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Real name: ian morrow
Location: wurdong hts queensland

Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #2 by IANOZ » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:01 am

Hi Greg, If you don't get the answers you need here,Try The" heavy equipment forum" Its based in the states with lots of hands on guys very willing to help .If you do join you have to do 3 posts on other threads before you can post your own thread ..There is also a case forum. The australian TOMM forum is supposed to be reopening on thursday next week,Its mostly stationary motor guys but there is a few of we tractor guys on there . THat ball bearing knowing case probably does something real important if it was back where it came from .ian.


martyn williams
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Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #3 by martyn williams » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:47 pm

Is the machine fitted with a strainer.I have has problems on I H equipment in the past with similar fault to your machine.The strainer is often forgotten to check.
Sounds like your transmission needs a overhaul.I would check pressures,metal in the oil don't sound too good.


Robban_C
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:27 pm
Real name: Robert Carlsson

Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #4 by Robban_C » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:18 am

Martyn, what is a "strainer"? Some kind of restriction? :dizzy:

Btw, I thought the thread was about an old Hymac! Isn´t there a Hymac called 580B?


Anyway, I have similar symtoms on my old Poor Fergusson 3165. That is an industrial 165 with a converter tranny having 2-speeds and a high/low gear making four gears in total.
I have to run it for a few minutes at an increased engine speed or the tranny would slip a lot in forward and a little less but still noticeable in reverse. After that it runs as it should.

I have made a few measures to fix the problem:
1. New tranny oil didn´t help but it sure feels better in my heart and soul. :thumbup:
2. The 3165 has a filter screen in the bottom of the tranny, the oil pump that is used for locking the forward/reverse clutches sucks its oil through this screen and it was all clogged with metal parts, probably from the "drive dogs" or whatever you cal it in the gear box. I cleaned that screen and it got slightly better. I guess that improved oil flow to the pump makes the clutches lock up better but the improvement was marginal.
3. For the same reason I have cleaned the tranny oil filter that are mounted on the left side of the engine.

Cleaning the oil lines to the tranny oil cooler and flushing the oil cooler itself might help a little to but I guess that my tranny is worn.
I don´t know if there are any filters or screens in the tranny on your 580 but I think you should check but I´m afraid that you will have to make a tranny overhaul sooner or later just like Martyn suggested.
Pressure checking will tell if it is a worn clutch packet or an oil pump problem.
Volvo EC45 PRO -06
Volvo EC35 -01
MB-Trac 800 turbo
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MF 3165, Poor Ferguson

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martyn williams
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Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #5 by martyn williams » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:19 pm

Hello Robert,a strainer is usually a fine mesh filter.I have worked on machines in the past that have broken down due the the strainer blocked with all sorts,from old gasket material to remains of white metal bearings.This I tem is often forgotten or neglected.On removal they are just washed out and refitted.
Martyn


Robban_C
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:27 pm
Real name: Robert Carlsson

Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #6 by Robban_C » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:35 pm

Thanks for explaining Martyn! :thumbup:

That "filter screen" I wrote about in my previous post is off course the strainer.
And it had been both forgotten and neglected by the previous owner. :doh:
And I washed it and refitted it.
But the tractor didn´t run at all after that. :dizzy: And of course it wasn´t parked at the best place to put a few tonnes of rusting steel. :doh:
Anyway, I tried it after a night and the tractor suddenly ran as it should.
My guess is that the new oil needed a night to reach the oil pump (it was winter and the oil was cold and didn´t flow that well).
Anyway, it is still running much better than anyone can guess for such a filthy tractor. :thumbup:
Volvo EC45 PRO -06
Volvo EC35 -01
MB-Trac 800 turbo
Bigab 10-14 hook lift trailer
MF 3165, Poor Ferguson

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/RobbanxC


Topic author
gamble.greg
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:05 pm
Real name: Greg Gamble
Location: Sale, Victoria Australia.

Re: 580B Drive Problem

Post #7 by gamble.greg » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:25 pm

Thanks for the posts guys....... :thumbup: :thumbup: I reckon with the amount of bronzey and silver looking metal dust in the oil that came out, it is looking like an overhaul, no doubt about it. However, with it not being a proper working machine, as in it doesnt have to work every day to earn its and my keep, the strainer seems to get the majority vote. I have checked the shuttle pressures and they are within spec of the book. I have looked in the parts book and the strainer is a difficult job, but well worth doing before splitting the machine in half to do the trans. I find quite often the parts book gives a better illustration of a parts group than the manual. Ian, yes, Barry Lane is the man, he has the knowledge and when it is time and I have pulled the trans out, I will send it to him, no 2 ways about it, that way it will be done correctly the first time. Whatever the cost, it is always cheaper to spend the money and get it right the first time.
GG


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