Massey Ferguson 65 won't turn over

[agrimax]

Just out of curiosity,has the 65 got multi power or why didn't you tow start it?

[Slooby]

We would have bumped it had my brother-in-law not reversed it and the topper right up against the gate post, before turning the engine off to engage the PTO (apparently he doesn't like using the clutch...) at the only entry point to the field blocking the gate for anything bigger than my dad's Fiat Panda to get past. It was easier for me to unblock the gate by unhitching the topper, pushing the tractor forward a bit then using the forks on the JCB to shuffle the topper to a position where I could pick it up and clear it out of the way. Then the time it would have taken to push the tractor to a position where I could get past in the JCB to tow start it was greater than throwing a chain on and just pulling it back the 50 yds into the yard.

I've rather lost my patience with the pair of them regarding maintenance as they've got into a habit of not doing any on all the bits of machinery unless it goes wrong, at which point I generally get roped in because I can't stand seeing a job being bodged. In my dad's case he's 80 this year so a bit set in his ways, while my brother-in-law just doesn't have the experience nor interest...which is exasperating

[hair bear]

Obviously you shut down while attaching the shaft but... the load on the starter trying to turn the loaded pto as well, hmm, makes you wonder why it hasn't expired sooner.Some people shouldn't be allowed access to machinery. Has the two stage failed or been replaced with a single? Lack of 'operator' training? Would more interest be taken in a clutch with fur around it?

[essexpete]

Does bro in law know about the 2 stage clutch?

[Slooby]

I think none of us know about the two stage clutch!

Please elaborate!

Whenever I've used the tractor I've always been gentle with it in deference to its age, mechanical sympathy, and mindful of non-syncro gearboxes on similarly aged vehicles, so listening to the engine note to time my engagement of drive for example, and double de-clutching regardless

[gecko.cx]

From the MF135 manual:

GENERAL -,
The Dual Clutch Assembly enables the main
transmission drive to be disconnected without
interrupting the drive to the pump and p.t.o. shaft.
When the main transmission drive is stopped, with the
first movement of the pedal, p.t.o. driven implements
can still be operated and raised and lowered by the
hydraulic system. Further movement of the pedal will
stop p.t.o. driven implements and the hydraulic
pump.

So, pressing the clutch full travel both disconnects the transmission and PTO drive allowing an easy (unloaded) engagement of the PTO without crashing the gears.
At this stage of it's life, it's quite possible something is out of adjustment or maybe the PTO clutch plate is frozen, so you can't disengage it.

[essexpete]

There may be a flip over stop that prevents the second stage being operated. Dad and I had this pointed out to us 45 years ago by next door's tractor driver. We had no idea!

[hair bear]

On the 35/135/240/550 models the main clutch was at the very top of the pedal travel. It wasn't unusual for the uninitiated to think it was out of gear and find otherwise on the last half inch. Likewise for the pto the pedal was was right down on the footplate. There's a possibility the 65 set up is similar although I've never got me mitts on one so just a guess.

[Slooby]

Cheers all, the staging of the pedal would make sense from my own observations when using the tractor over the years.

I also suspect that it is badly out of adjustment through neglect...time to try and get through to them about the importance of certain things...

[Slooby]

Well it transpires that my dad did know about the two stage clutch, but brother-in-law hadn't grasped the concept when it had been explained to him years ago.

Anyway, new solenoid turned up and was part fitted by my dad, but he forgot how it was wired up so I had to do that today. Battery checked and fully charged, connected back up, ignition key inserted and...nothing, nada, zilch...just as dead as it was with the old solenoid....really very confused now!