Dumper restoration

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cobbadog
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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #31 by cobbadog » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:24 pm

IT is very much like the UK without stone fences. It is called the New England Tablelands and in one area they even built some standing stones trying to make ex-pats feel at home.
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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #32 by Studu » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:12 pm

Thank you all for the replies to my Petter AVA1 problem.
I have reinstalled the fuel pump and injector, re-lapped the valves carefully, lubricated the cylinder and new piston rings, recruited a friend who is a life long career mechanic (non diesel), checked the atomised spray from the nozzle and all seems well. Also warmed the block with a fan heater and used some 'cold start' spray. Bloody thing still won't start.
Thought it needed turning faster but doing it as fast as I can and, at nearly 70, if it needs more then I probably shouldn't be doing it.
I have used 10/30 oil as per the manual. temperature here in Cheshire is now 5-10'c.
Where would I research spill timing?
Spill timing sounds like something I have not addressed.
Does the nut adjustment on the top of the injector assembly have significance? I have fiddled with it.
All this is slowing my progress as I am reluctant to start the steering and brakes until I know the engine works.

Yours frustratingly

Stewart Higgins


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #33 by Whitlock 505 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:23 pm

Hi Stewart

Just a thought after reading through all your posts and I feel your pain after restoring an old Aveling dumper and having the same sort of problems! Are there any shims between the fuel pump and the base of where it mounts? These shims are really important to getting the timing right and if there are too many or not enough the diesel will not be injecting at the right moment when full compression is achieved. I wa told this when setting up a lister petter and if the previous owner has tinkered with the engine they may not have replaced the shims or the incorrect amount been replaced.May not be that but when it gets frustrating you'll try anything

Fingers crossed for you
Ian


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #34 by cobbadog » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:33 pm

Good advice Ian and checking your spill timing and setting it if required is very important. Your question about 'a nut' on top of the injector is interesting. It would mbe best to show a picture of what you have removed or adjusted so we can answer that one. Cold weather is your enemy at the moment and unavoidaaaable but trying to put some warmth into the engine is good. The use of either should be done in very small amounts just incase it decides to kick back and cause damage from too much inside. Another form of help in starting is to disconnect the air cleaner where it connects to the inlet manifold and grab a piece of stiff wire a rag and some diesel. Wrap the wire around the rag, dip it in siesel and light it up and hold it over the intake. This wends warm air inside and helps in a similar way that glow plugs do. On some tractors they ignite a small amount of diesel inside the manifold to provide the heat.
Now for your spill timing if it is not listed in your manual then hopefully another member of the forum will jump in and help you out. In the mean time try good old YouTube and type in spill timing on your model engine and be prepared for a lot of info to be shown.
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #35 by Matchless?58 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:06 pm

I believe Fred gave a perfectly good explanation of spill timing for these engines a while back . Just a matter of searching the previous posts . Cheers Chris


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #36 by Studu » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:53 pm

Thank you for the helpful suggestions. After Ian suggested looking at the shims/ lack of shims where the fuel pump is mounted, I realised that I had made a new gasket for this purpose. I checked in the manual and there is not meant to be a gasket at all! I promptly removed it and cleaned out the fuel pump housing. Made sure that the fuel line was primed but still it would not start. Smoke from the exhaust yes and the odd pop but not a proper start. I have mentioned the screw adjustment on top of the fuel injector assembly. I tried that in various positions but no success. I attach a picture as I am not sure if it’s significance so if anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful. I suspect that I will have to check the spill time.
The fuel pump is shown with and without my home made gasket. The fuel injector assembly is shown with the brass dust cap on and also removed to show the screw adjustment I have referred to.
Stewart
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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #37 by Whitlock 505 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:18 pm

It's a promising sign that your getting smoke which means that some diesel is reaching the pot.Did you have the fuel pump overhauled and did they do anything to it? The injector screw at the top is for the altering of pressure on when the "pintle" in the injector opens against the pressure on the spring inside the injector, if they didn't do anything to the pump then it maybe that there is still not enough pressure from the pump to open the pintle. What's your fuel delivery like from the tank? Is that the banjo on the rubber pipe which feeds the pump?
Work the diesel up to each point in stages to eliminate air and know that you have diesel all the way up to the injector and as others have said take the injector out of the block and check that it is atomising from all 3 ports/holes in the injector.
I had the same problem with a lister ad1 engine and I had to bite the bullet and buy a new pump which solved the problem

Ian

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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #38 by FOWLER MAN » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:54 pm

Hi Stuart,
The spill timing on your engine is not set with shims as Ian suggested. I think he was confusing your Petter engine with a Lister which does use shims.
Your spill timing is set by adjusting the tappet below the pump which can be seen in your last pic.
To set the spill timing you will need to remove the injector pipe and screw out the fitting to which it is attached. Under the fitting you will find a spring and small plunger, (valve).
Remove these and keep safe, then screw the fitting back into the pump. You should find a pointer attached to the crank case to line up with the mark on the flywheel. I think it was marked 24 deg. and is before the TDC. mark.
Turn the engine to about a quarter of a turn before TDC. on the firing stroke and turn on the fuel supply. At this point the fuel should well out of the top of the injector pump.
Turn the engine slowly ,blowing the fuel away from the delivery fitting on top of the pump until the fuel stops. That is the spill point.
Adjust the tappet under the pump until that cut off point coincides exactly with the line up of the pointer and mark on the flywheel.
Replace the plunger and spring, (delivery valve), in the top of the pump, Job done. :thumbup:

Do not touch the screw and lock-nut on top of the injector you will disturb the setting of the injection release pressure, (possibly 2250 lbs.ft.per sq.inch), which is set on a test rig.

P.S. If my memory serves me right there is no gasket fitted under the injector pump, just some sealant.


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #39 by cobbadog » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:02 am

Your description is very clear and easy to follow so much so that even I understood it.
As for the adjusting screw on top of the injector I think it is too late to say dont adjust it. I think I read somewhere that it has been altered so if that is the case it will need to be reset properly by use of a pop off pressure relief gauge. (or what ever it is called)
Cheers Cobba


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Re: Dumper restoration

Post #40 by Studu » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:02 pm

Thank you. Very clear.
The pump has been overhauled and, presumably, the injection release pressure was adjusted, but I have fiddled with it so I suspect it will need resetting. But there is certainly a fine atomised spray coming from the injector nozzle.
I will have a go at adjusting spill time and report back. Not identified any marks to indicate TDC...yet!
Stewart


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