Skid Steer Tug

[Baloo]

Hi
Dont know if this is the right place for this, or even the right forum but you guys know your way round plant and like oily stuff right ?

l need some thing to pull a heavy roller around a field/track been doing it with a 4x4 with an old cast iron roller on the back but its not working, not enough wieght to roll out the ground how l want it but l am probally at the limit of the suzuki towing wise be burning clutches out next if l am not carefull, so next logical step is get a bigger 4x4 and a bigger heavier roller, probally an old discovery tdi cheap as cheaps these days as they all need welding back together but there is a big but landrovers and discos are to heavy and sink, since l can only roll and have some sucess when the ground is soft then the disco leaves 2 bloody great tracks that the roller cant fill/squash, tried it with a range rover classis and it sank and sat there with its wheels spinning while the suzuki drove round it and pulled it out, so l cant have anything with a heavy footprint as it sort of self defeats itself by making to much of a mess.
so l was thinking of making a tug to pull a much heavier roller, l know l can buy an old tractor but thats no fun is it and old tractors have narrow tyres anyway
got lots of bits kicking around and would be good to use some up in fact probally got almost everything l need,

starting at the ground as this wont work with some gurt big wide floatation type tyres, l bought some of these a while back, 31x15.5x15 tyres of jcb miniback hoe ? l think

URL of the original image: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/andyhaycock/rockcrawler/kidderminster005.jpg

these babbies are wide and without them l dont think l would even consider building a skid steer, but l have them and will have a go, actually a tractor might be a better name for it as l want it to be able to take an out front cutting deck on the front as well


URL of the original image: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/andyhaycock/rockcrawler/6x6001800x600.jpg

l am thinking 6x6 as instead top 8x8 because of the scrub when turning and since l am trying to creat a flat grass track l dont want to be chewing it all back up when l turn l think a slow gradual turn should be out and not cause too much damage ?

be through several incarnations of drive train in my head want it to be diesel so l can run it on red and ideally auto as l am getting a lazy old git

first plan was a peugeot 205/306 diesel engine and box but as they dont apper to come in auto versions so l hunted down a citroen diesel auto, same engine just with an auto on the backend, was thinking of mid mounting the engine and box so as it drives the centre 2 wheels and then chain drive to the front 2 and the rear 2 nice and simple and l can use the engine as a heated seat steering would be just a case of braking on one side or the other the standard diff taking care of this
big down side l see is the gearing l wont be any better of than useing a citroen car since l have the same final drive, worse in fact as the tyres are bigger but it least it wont sink on 6 big fat herbie tyres and what a hoot at 60 mph across a field lol

plan 2 connect the 2 centre wheel together with an axle from a suzuki or toyota hilux mount the citroen engine and box turned through 90* at the front and use the rearward facing gearbox out put to feed into the diff on the hilux axle, would need to weld up the citroen diff for this to work but at least l would be passing through diffs and getting that extra 4 to 1 reduction in the drive train so top speed would fall to around 20 mph but pulling power should go up 4 fold, but still no better steering than stamping on the brakes for one side or the other

plan 3 transit engine and gearbox driving a hydraulic pump with a hyd motor for each side, installed so as the engine is at the back just to make it easy with the rad and the exhaust at the back, seat above the gearbox with trhe hydraulic pump at the front in the middle, 2 spool valves feeding a motor for each side that has a sprocket that picks up with the drive chains, using the transit gearbox will allow me to tailor the engine speed to the pump easier and having the motors with sprokets on allows some scope for changing the gearing if l get it wrong
and be able to run one motor in forward and one in reverse will get the most out of the steering

please excuse my drawing as computer skills are not high on my list of things to learn
transit engine facing the rear so as the cooling pack can be right at the back blowing the hot air out rearwards, keep the 5 speed manual box but probally leave it which ever gear suits to drive the hydraulic pump the most effectivly, seats above/on the gerabox, hydraulic pump on the end of the gearbox ( short prop maybe) and 2 hyd motors with sprocket reduction to the drive chains same as argocat
packages nicley keeping all the hydraulics at one end close to each other with short hose runs etc

URL of the original image: http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/andyhaycock/rockcrawler/6x61002.jpg

so what do you think, buy a tractor ??

[diggerjones]

buy a tractor and convert it to take your tyres. no car or pic up engine will drive your tyres very well.

[kaos]

so what do you think, buy a tractor ??

From a completely practical perspective; yes, I think so. Of course, building a skid steer could be a fun project in it's own right, but it will be lot's of work, and you will have to get a h*ll of a lot of engineering decisions right to get something that would outperform, say, an old grey fergie. (Or, as fergies are collectors items these day, something slightly younger, like f.x. a Ford 3000).

old tractors have narrow tyres

Narrow, but tall tyres. That also counts, flotation wise. Also, if you need even less ground pressure, it's easy to go dualie. And if you are concerned about marking the field, skid steer is not really optimal, anyway.

ideally auto

Automatic transmissions and tractor work can mix, but it would need to be a beefy unit, with good cooling. I wouldn't want to try it with something from a lightweight passenger car, particularly if the gearing is too tall.

As for general drivetrain layout, your first version won't work, for the reason you pointed out yourself; the gearing will be too tall for off-road work, much less tractor work. The second version might work, but you will need some hefty chain to transfer power to the first and the third axle. Make sure you put in correspondingly strong chain guards, so that if the chain does break, it will not slice into the operator! I think I like the third version best; partially because it takes the weedy automatic out of the equation, and partially because, as you say, it gives you lot of options with gearing. You still have that chain, though.

Best of luck, anyway, which ever way you go.

Kári.

[Baloo]

buy a tractor and convert it to take your tyres. no car or pic up engine will drive your tyres very well.

well it wouldent take much to talk me into buying a tractor lol, l like the idea of a tractor and will probally end up with one at some stage but l like building things and will get hours of fun out of making a skid steer

[XS650]

What about a old 4x4 artic steer dumper as a base ? without skip.
Loads about , quite cheap , easy spares, wheels travel in same tracks , heavy duty components, wide tyres etc

[Baloo]

What about a old 4x4 artic steer dumper as a base ? without skip.
Loads about , quite cheap , easy spares, wheels travel in same tracks , heavy duty components, wide tyres etc

lol l did give my dumper a crafty glance the other day but its worth more to me to me as a dumper just now lol
to be honest l look forward to the fabrication of a skid steer as l like metal work, intresting sort of job working it all out

[Baloo]

so what do you think, buy a tractor ??

From a completely practical perspective; yes, I think so. Of course, building a skid steer could be a fun project in it's own right, but it will be lot's of work, and you will have to get a h*ll of a lot of engineering decisions right to get something that would outperform, say, an old grey fergie. (Or, as fergies are collectors items these day, something slightly younger, like f.x. a Ford 3000).

old tractors have narrow tyres

Narrow, but tall tyres. That also counts, flotation wise. Also, if you need even less ground pressure, it's easy to go dualie. And if you are concerned about marking the field, skid steer is not really optimal, anyway.

ideally auto

Automatic transmissions and tractor work can mix, but it would need to be a beefy unit, with good cooling. I wouldn't want to try it with something from a lightweight passenger car, particularly if the gearing is too tall.

As for general drivetrain layout, your first version won't work, for the reason you pointed out yourself; the gearing will be too tall for off-road work, much less tractor work. The second version might work, but you will need some hefty chain to transfer power to the first and the third axle. Make sure you put in correspondingly strong chain guards, so that if the chain does break, it will not slice into the operator! I think I like the third version best; partially because it takes the weedy automatic out of the equation, and partially because, as you say, it gives you lot of options with gearing. You still have that chain, though.

Best of luck, anyway, which ever way you go.

Kári.

hi Kaos
nicely thought through reply there, just pondering the wheel stations now, bit tricky but will post up my ideas shortly
cheers Andy

[XS650]

Admire your enthusiasm !

[Baloo]

right after picking everyones brains it seems the nice new hydraulic pump l have is not the one for the job as its only a single
so now l need a twin or tripple pump of an excavator some thing like an old 812 or anything at all really l am sure l can make it fit somehow

[MrF]

I know your probably going to go onward with the skid steer from a playing with making something perspective, but having to tackle cutting and attempting to do something to the 1/2 acre of bog we laughingly term a garden here, I'd go with a old small tractor out of practicallity any day of the week.
Ive had my landrover stuck in there and had to hilift jack it out the resulting mess with a tractor pulling it out at the same time. I sank the jcb up to its axles on one occasion and left some horrid humongous ground scars walking it out on the buckets, but my tiny little petrol 2wd 1946ish vintage pre-fergie massey harris pony never gets stuck. Theres a absolutely soggy bit near the bottom that you can hardly walk across and that nearly gets it but I can just bounce on the seat a bit for traction and escape.
I am amazed how those thin skinny tyres and portal axles and complete lack of suspension actually work in real life. And if you do leave a scar, the marks are so skinny its easy to push the sides back in and trample it down with a boot ready for when it dries out next. The tractor itself is so tiny and light I can roll it round the yard by winding the rear wheels around on the flat to save starting it.
The pony with a little trailer on or the finger mower is the first weapon of choice for anything in the garden. And we pull a heavy roller with it at times, and use two ploughs on the back when doing the veggie plot prep etc.
I wouldnt however go get a bigger leyland or something if I didnt want to leave any marks and the neighbors valtra 4x4 monster certainly has more impact on the ground