carnage 3ciii

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #111 by MrF » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:30 pm

Sorry to hear about your problems with the split. I can't imagine my mrs wanting half of my crap, even out of spite.
I have a wheels free somewhere for the fog 4 poster but its buried under the lift in the van, the ramp itself is a central hydraulic ram with pulleys setup, so you can't sort of assemble two posts from it, its a all or nothing deal.

The forklift is here, a 1991 Hyster 2.50XL 2t lift with a medium height mast and a isuzu diesel engine.
Good things it has a sideshift and it works, the mast etc all function well and it can pick up a load.
Bad things, you get 2 minutes before the transmission screws up not 10-15 and the throttle cable is snapped. It also needs glow plugs to start, although its not smoking or making any bad noises and the oil is uncontaminated. Although its hardly getting hot properly so far. I took the air filter out and its minging, blocked almost solid with dust so I imagine the diesel filter will be a bit desperate for a new one also. The fuel is red diesel, and my farmer neighbor told me you can't buy red diesel tinted fuel denoting no tax in France, they just record the usage and claim the duty back on the vehicles afterwards, and red fuel means its running on heating oil. The kubota in the mower was the same, and new fuel made that happier...

The seller told me they moved it round the yard into position walking along side actuating the throttle direct it until it lost drive then they turned off and returned after a few minutes for the next 20ft.
I also noticed the transmission starts to make a whining noise once it looses drive, and the drive loss happens in both forward and reverse. The fluid level is overfull and the floor access plates finger tight so I'm guessing they tried the easy fixes already, but I'll try a fluid change & new filters, and use it like this for short periods to drop the engine into the 3c.

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #112 by Matchless?58 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:19 pm

Glad it arrived ! Now all you got to do is fix the machine . It doesn't look all battered and broken although pictures can be deceptive . At least this will allow you to drop your engine into the JCB a bit more safely than that old engine hoist . After its done that you can start to fix it . My pel job mini digger has a 3 cylinder Isuzu engine and they are pretty tough so any issues with the engine will probably be as you say fuel issues . I have always changed my fuel filters regularly as they are not that expensive together with that and regular services I have had the machine for 15 years without problems . Good luck with it certainly a very handy tool cheers Chris .


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #113 by MrF » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:12 pm

Thanks, I was pretty sure at certain points that it was a scam somehow, because the seller was so bad at communicating. We rang him on the phone wondering if it was someone who just hated texting so gave one word minimal answers, and he was like that when we rang too.
He was supposed to text today also that he was making the delivery because it was a 4 hour journey each way, and I was out the front repairing the yard gates and I saw a recovery truck coming down our road with a forklift on the back and flagged it down :)

I also like the little isuzu and kubota diesels, I was really pleased to see that was the engine in my 'manitou'.
I got it warm and it still sounds sweet but its hunting for fuel after its been running a few minutes, and if you pump the filter prime button it smooths out. Also it doesn't need heater plugs to start if you prime with the same. There's a place I got the service pack for the kubota from that does all the filters in a service kit for this hyster (fuel/oil/transmission oil/ hydraulic/air) for 80 quid inc postage and taxes and I ordered a fuel filter alone from amazon today of all places as its the same as a citroen jumpy van after some cross matching the part number of the mahle filter thats on it now.
Currently the forklift is in position along side the jcb after I gave up waiting for the transmission to cool and just used some straps to manoever it around and the engine is sat on top of the loader arms on the big beams ready to drop in tomorrow. Now to hunt down the manuals online without helping some dodgy professional theives get richer...
It was a incredibly blissful feeling to just sling up the engine and lift it up onto those beams, after years of using that sketchy engine lift...


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #114 by MrF » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:36 pm

Well, I couldn't be dealing with the engine stumbling and cutting out while I was shifting things on the forks, so this am has been fettle the forklift time.
I made a new accelerator cable using the ends and fittings from the original but new bowden cable & Amazon managed to live up to their next day service promise for a change so the new fuel filter went on, and it was still the same.
Out with the tank diesel pickup on the basis that its bound to have a in tank mesh filter, and it did, and of course it was plugged solid with rust and crud. 20 minutes in a cheap lidl's jewelry cleaner in hot soapy water, some blow outs with the compressor and solvent and its free. Back on, and its happy, 20 minutes without a stumble and it can pick up the jcb engine at tickover. I predict that at some point in the near future the tank will have to be steamed out, but it has a decent access cover I can get the lance in so that shouldn't be too bad.

Damn shame amazon don't do transmission filters and the correct jd20c oil because it would be so great if that issue was so easy to resolve also, now i have to wait impatiently for them to arrive. The transmission has a mesh filter on the pickup too...

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #115 by Slooby » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:56 pm

At least the engine/fuelling is sorted. Have you been able to check the condition of the transmission fluid and quantity? I'm guessing that it's an automatic of some type?

The recovery of my stuff is more to do with the psychological impact that my marriage and its implosion (she had an affair with a mutual friend) has taken on me. I am not safe to be back at my former home, near my ex or anyone associated with her because of the damage it has all caused. She is not prepared to give me space to deal with anything at the house as she has a need to be in control of everything. So we are at an impasse with no sign of improvement. Doesn't help that she broke her wrist last week when she was mucking about on her BMX instead of looking after our son. Now she is incapacitated and I have our son until she is fit. This is making her more angry and difficult because control. Urgh, it's mess
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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #116 by MrF » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:10 pm

Sort of, I went hunting and found a paper manual for sale on ebay for the transmission from a french seller that's on the way, and this online from a basic service manual that I think could be my machine from a iffy download site that wanted credit card details to download the pdf but gave a full jpg preview, so brought to you by the magic of alt-printscrn->save page to disk...
The ports match up to my machine, so I put a pressure gauge on port1 for the transmission pump, and when it first starts it has 70psi of pressure which is below spec. That steadily drops until a few minutes there's 0 psi. I blew back through the port and immediately on restart it has pressure again for a minute & while it has pressure above 40psi it has drive. After a few more minutes, there's not even enough flow to push oil out the port above 4-5" of head pressure with a clear tube open to atmosphere but held up on it while I was trying to remove excess fluid as its definitely overfilled even after removing a few litres of fluid like this.
Pressing the brake pedal causes the flow to stop immediately while it still has transmission pressure, and comes back when its lifted so I think this is the inching spool doing its job and adjusted ok?

I'm not experienced at all with automatic transmissions but does the low pump pressure after a delay mean there's a blockage somewhere as its starving of oil, or is it perhaps the main pump bad?

hyster_specs3.png


I should really start a new thread for the forklift repair, I'm not sure a 1991 hyster is a classic machine though...

I realized this pm I was getting distracted by the forklift and its good enough for the job right now, so I got the motor in and home on the 3c3 and its backed out the way now, I'm knackered now but worth it.
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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #117 by Slooby » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:55 pm

Sadly the only thing I know about automatic gearboxes really is that I don't like them! I had the misfortune to have an E39 530d fitted with a GM 5L40E auto box, BMW called it 'sealed for life' GM however said it should be serviced every 60k miles, it also didn't help that GM rated it to 240lbft and the M57D30 engine used in my car was rated ar 288lbft...I serviced it at 145k miles, and it failed 1k miles later because all the friction material from the clutch packs came out with the old oil... The rebuild was expensive because pump body and all the solenoid/actuators had to be replaced as well as the clutch packs, with the distribution manifold needing all the oil ways for those solenoids/actuators reboring and then iron liners fitting to them. The rebuilt gearbox was actually uprated to cope better with the M57D30 torque (I believe to 350lbft) and is still going strong in the car now, with its current owner having added knocking on for another 75k miles over the 220k it had when I sold it to him! He also has blown up two engines now fiddling around with tuning it.

Aaaanyway, it could well be that a full service will flush out any debris and burnt oil with yours, and it might need a second flush soon after to really get it clean. A lot of problems seem to be oil, pump and solenoid/actuator related

As for my situation, my 'friends' are reluctant to get involved on my behalf, they have all started to behave quite strangely towards me, and I fear a new narrative has been created regarding what occurred between my ex and I. I am distinctly on my own with sorting this all out now, and all the while I pay all the bills (which I have to for the sake of my son and my credit history) my ex has no incentive to do anything. I am accutely aware that my replacement is now ensconced in the house too having trashed his marriage too.
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Going: T25 Camper & ST675R :cry:
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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #118 by MrF » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:15 am

Ok, productive evening away from the workshop, and now I have the full manual set for every aspect of the forktruck. Engine, wiring harnesses, frame, transmission etc, each one a separate pdf. And they are excellent. I sort of understand auto transmissions and covered the theory as part of a vehicle engineering diploma years ago but I've never had to work on one and experience always beats theoretical knowledge. Its something that's interesting for other vehicles I own too as one of them its at the build stage of decision time to run the manual or the automatic transmission.

From the manual, the main things I think that can be causing the low transmission pressure is the regulator of main system pressure on top of the regulator valve block that might be stuck/have a broken spring etc, or the pump itself on the front of the transmission.
The pump involves taking the engine out, which right now I don't want to start until the jcb is finished and we have a workshop floor, but I can disassemble the pressure valve on top of the valve block externally to check it & also gain access to some points on the torque converter via a access panel thats removable.
The pump is number 1 with my test point on output side of the the valve block at 5 showing the regulated pressure. The book says 'The oil pressures for the
pump, torque converter and oil cooler circuits are checked at the front cover.' so I need to find the gauge point there now. And also the electrical wiring diagram shows the heater wiring and its really simple, no timers or any of that just a button to send power to the heaters, that the previous owner used a bit of mains wire to energize direct so I can see whats going on with that.

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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #119 by Slooby » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:54 pm

Finding those manuals is a huge boon, I've just got my hands on a cracked copy of the current BMW service system which covers all their cars to around 2017 with OBDII ports...it's invaluable and cost me a fiver for membership of a download site for a month lol.

Fingers crossed it's just a sticking actuator valve or clogged filter!
CN Stuff: MF65, Thwaites Nimline, JCB 3CX
Daily: M140i
Projects: S11a 88" V8 Hybrid, 2 x S111 109"s, Mk11 Mini, Harrison L5A :doh:
Going: T25 Camper & ST675R :cry:
Sorely Missed: 500 of Each Impreza, E39 M5 :(


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Re: carnage 3ciii

Post #120 by MrF » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:27 pm

Well, rain stopped play on the 3c3, I think I'd be better off building a ark rather than a digger round here today. So back to the forklift, first I went for the wiring as it seemed a easy fix, and lifting the seat to touch some manky old electrical wire on the heater strip isnt my style. And I'm glad I did... Some numpty had ran a unfused wire straight from the battery +ve, up to a big chocolate block under the dash, then onto a really small no latching switch with 1.5mm mains wires from the switch to the chocolate block. Of course the switch contacts were vapourised by the current flow and hence it didnt heat off the button. I showed my boy as he's at college starting some engineering stuff and design and his words seem perfect, "mega lol".
So cut the heater relay and a bit of wiring harness off the dead transit in the yard that's currently our dry wood store and pulled the loom out and found the original 30a feed from the fusebox for the heater circuit & wired up the relay with the current for the relay actuation going through the replacement switch. Added a little telltale so you could see it working and ripped out the extra bodged wiring.


So onto the lack of drive, but its not the direction, inching or modulator spools stuck because I bit the bullet and had the valve block off & cleaned/inspected it. There's some scoring on the bore of the modulator valve spool and it was stuck when I first disassembled it, but its not jammed now.

Unfortunately that didn't cure it, & I didnt have a fitting for the torque converter test ports so disassembled the main pump relief valve as its on the side and theoretically another pressure loss point. The spool stayed in, and when I started the engine there was no leakage so I found a small rod to prod the end of the spool down its bore as access was really difficult and all done by feel as impossible to see, and it seemed stuck then moved. Then when I restarted it pushed the spool out and started leaking oil out the port like I expected it to do the first time. So clean out, reassemble.
Then it seemed to want to move rearwards, but the wheels were chocked solid forwards. So I backed it out the barn into a torrential downpour outside and joy, it reversed under power, even after pushing and then releasing the inching pedal and no howling noises from the transmission. Then I ran out of room to go back and when I put it into forward, the howling noise came back and it did nothing so I had to winch it back into the barn with a strap while cursing...

I ordered a fitting to adapt my gauges to the transmission and torque converter pressure test points. Tomorrow I will put a gauge and see what pressure its got going rearwards at the top valve block. There's still that mesh screen on the pickup to fish out too.


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