FOWLER

[IANOZ]

hI GUYS. I will try this again , damm posts just keep disappearing into cyber space. Looking to buy it ,All I know Its a fowler Whats it Worth? Whats it weigh? and what model is it. I could ask the guy who is selling it , but all of you would miss out on giving your opinion. Ian.

[John Gaunt]

Hi Ian,
That's a Fowler VF crawler. They use the same engine as the Field Marshall tractor (but it runs in the opposite direction - since it's a 2 stroke that's not a big problem).
The VF was made up to Oct 1952 (ser No. 4704658) after which it became the VFA.
The VF used a controlled epicyclic differential to effect steering.
I'm not sure what it's worth, in UK, the wheeled Fieldmarshall tractors make good money (£8000 - £10000 for a good one), the crawlers are worth less, but still quite a bit.
The VF weighs 9200 lbs less blade.
Starting the 2-stroke diesel (4.2 litres in one cylinder !) requires a glowing paper to be inserted in a holder in the cylinder head, followed by hand cranking (uses a compression release device). Alternatively a 'power start' cartridge can be used.
Most parts are still available through Robert Crawford here in UK.
Do let us know if you buy it.
Best Regards, John.

[Tracshovel]

These were sold recently and fetched between £8500 and £14000. I'am sure the crawler was around £8500.

[BulldozerD11]

hI GUYS. I will try this again , damm posts just keep disappearing into cyber space. Looking to buy it ,All I know Its a fowler Whats it Worth? Whats it weigh? and what model is it. I could ask the guy who is selling it , but all of you would miss out on giving your opinion. Ian.

Hi Ian
Interesting Idea with the Little engine for the Blade hydraulics power

Theirs one at shows in the UK with Blaw Knox dozer blade on and the Hydraulic pumps driven off the side of the gearbox in place of the Belt pulley.

Dave

[BulldozerD11]

Heres a photo of Fowler VFA taken yesterday http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Fowler_VFA
(photos too big to upload on here) So started a page for VFA's on tractor wiki as it was a link waiting for details

if its an early green VFA only 300 built, but more likely a VF as its green.

Sale data in Tractor magazine give VF's from £3000 up to £8000 for unrestored good original machines. The latter VFA fetching less But most VFA went to export according to book on subject.

Dave

[Fowler VF]

Ian

John has filled you in with most of the facts about the Fowler. I note there is a hole in the mounting plate of the blade to fit the handle through. Take care of that handle and keep it well greased at the end and where it slides through that hole, the last thing you want is it hanging in the flywheel when it starts up.

Points to look out for,

The engine is very simple and uses a total loss oil system with a pump behind the flywheel that feeds oil to the big ends and cyclinder. This is probably the main thing that could go wrong, problem is to get at it you have to take the flywheel off. Thsi is fine but needs a serious puller, worth checking if the keys that hold the flywheel have the heads showing, they sometimes get broken off by careless use of the starting handle, in which case you have a real fun job if you ever need to get the flywheel off. Have a look in the oil reservoir (by the flywheel) they are prone to collecting water and condensation and therfore not oiling properly. There is a priming handle for the oil pump, again by the flywheel, just check that it works. Worth rocking the flywheel back and forward to feel for the big ends and bearings. These things are quite high compression and shouldn't be able to turn over on the handle without decompressing. At the front end check to see if it has a starter valve to control the cartridge start, check if this is sealing properly and not losing compression when you turn it over. Have a good look at the holder for the "touch paper" in the top of the cylinder, make sure it scres in freely and is seating nicely in the cylinder head, they can leak and score the seating. With this taken out you can turn the engine over with the handle and check for the diesel injecting properly, after 5 or 6 turns you should see diesel spray coming out and will hear the injector pump making a sort of squeak. The air intake valves are just sprung bits of steel, after time they lose spring and can even crack, this will make it hard to satrt and will make it smoke badly, they are underneath the air intake unit, lift the air filter off, take off the hood and the unti will unbolt of the top of the crank to reveal the intake valve reeds. Have a look on the opposite side to the flywheel at the clutch unit, you can see the brake pads that stop the clutch unit from the outside, check for wear. As John says they use internal brake bands on an epicyclic gear for steering, they are up inside and they either work or they don,t they can be adjusted at the back of the tractor but take care over this as the slightest extra drag on one side will make them pull off to one side all the time. Brakes are cheap to fix but you have to strip the whole of the back sprocket and housing out.

As John says, almost all parts can be obtained from Crawfords. They will sell you the touch papers and cartridges for starting. http://www.frithville.demon.co.uk/repairfm.html; and most parts either new or secondhand. They even stock the original seat cushions.

The photo's of the blade are unusual, I guess that blade was an aftermarket fit in Oz. I have got another VF with a blade on it but it doesn't look like that beast! As John says the pumps for blades were ususally fitted onto the back end, there was one on ebay recently, went for a few hundred pounds, but I bet Crawfords would find you one. The seat arrnagment is also a retro fit, take a look at the other photo's, haing said that it does look slightly more comfortable than the original.

I have seen these go from £4,000 up, no idea what the demand is like over with you. If you buy it let me know and I can scan a copy of the manual for you.

Nick

[John Gaunt]

Hi Nick, I like the last of your photos, that late model hexatrac is making your Fowler smoke a bit.
I have an almost identical hexatrac which I pull with a D7 !!

[IANOZ]

Thanks guys, all good infomation. The small motor on the side is aparently set up as a pilot motor starter like a caterpillar. Its on ebay over here and only 350 kms from here. IF and when i or we meaning my son work out how to scan photos on to the computer ,WE have lots of photos from the australian national show held in queensland about 2 years ago. Thanks ian.

[Fowler VF]

Ian

Using a little engine like that as a donkey seems a bit extreme, its not like Fowler's normally take a lot of starting. I have used a belt drive to the flywheel to turn one over after a rebuild whilst it was a bit tight but otherwise the handle should suffice and they'll normally fire straight up. I wonder if the guy is using the touch paper glow plug properly? Worse thing it could be a symptom of something else wrong, worn bores and poor compression? Rather than just being not strong enough to swing it! Frankly the donkey engine looks badly out of place and shouldn't be needed, it might have been an interesting engineering exercise but I can't see that it should help a lot. If you look at the left handside at the front you can see the handle for the cartridge holder, if winding the handle was too much for the operator then it would surely be easier (and more fun) to use that. Maybe its not connected up? On the front right hand side I can see the hole where the valve fits but can't quite see the valve itself. Have a look at the photos of the front end of my machine, cartridge valve is shown, this connects the cartridge chamber on the other side through a heavy duty pipe, with cylinder head. You can also see the decompression lever and a wire running back up from it towards the flywheel. There is an arm with a small wheel on it that sits into a spiral grove in the flywheel, when it sits in the flywheel it holds the valve out in decompression, 3 or 4 swings of the flywheel and the little wheel runs out of the spiral groove and drops the decompression valve back in. Not quite sure how your man with the donkey engine deals with this, maybe he holds the decompressor valve out manually until he has built up speed.

The "touch paper" is salt petre impregnated to make it glow, a little patch of thick paper about 2" by 1", you roll it into a tube, slot it into the end of the holder, light it and get it glowing like a cigar then screw into the top of the cylinder. This is the glow plug!

If you buy this and don't feel like swinging the thing then the cartridge start is great fun, heres a shot of someone firing with the cartridge, (which is a special load of slow powder in a 12 bore case, don't even think about using an ordinary shell, even with the shot taken out).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rh1lxbelxVI

And heres one with a bit more detail on a VF:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S1rc3AmX0XQ

Alternatively, look at how easy it is to swing start, note the guy screwing in the lighted touch paper, he gets a few turns of the handle and then the decompressor flies out and she starts. Also note that the Marshall wheel tractor is the same engine but rotates the opposite way to the Fowler crawler. I even found an Oz version of the procedure just to make you feel at home!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B1r91sGgfXM

Go on buy the thing; you know you want to!!

Nick

[John Gaunt]

Everything Ian says is spot on. The only addition I would make relates to starting.
After removing the paper holder from the cylinder head, open the throttle approx 1/2 way and hand crank over the engine until you see diesel vapour coming out of the paper holder hole. This ensures that the injector is primed and working.
Then proceed as described to set the decompressor, light the paper and insert, finally crank, or use a cartridge.
Note that when using a cartridge a paper must also be used, also the flywheel must be set so that the power start lines line up, the decompressor being set on the last thread, and the power start valve is in the correct position.